09:0951(134)CA - Treasury, Customs Service, Region V and NTEU and NTEU Chapter 168 -- 1982 FLRAdec CA
[ v09 p951 ]
09:0951(134)CA
The decision of the Authority follows:
9 FLRA No. 134 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, UNITED STATES CUSTOMS SERVICE, REGION V Respondent and NATIONAL TREASURY EMPLOYEES UNION AND NATIONAL TREASURY EMPLOYEES UNION, CHAPTER 168 Charging Party Case No. 6-CA-237 DECISION AND ORDER THE ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE ISSUED THE ATTACHED DECISION IN THE ABOVE-ENTITLED PROCEEDING FINDING THAT THE RESPONDENT HAD NOT ENGAGED IN THE UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICES ALLEGED IN THE COMPLAINT AND RECOMMENDING THAT THE COMPLAINT BE DISMISSED IN ITS ENTIRETY. /1/ THEREAFTER, THE GENERAL COUNSEL AND THE CHARGING PARTY FILED EXCEPTIONS TO THE JUDGE'S DECISION. /2/ PURSUANT TO SECTION 2423.29 OF THE AUTHORITY'S RULES AND REGULATIONS AND SECTION 7118 OF THE FEDERAL SERVICE LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS STATUTE (THE STATUTE), THE AUTHORITY HAS REVIEWED THE RULINGS OF THE JUDGE MADE AT THE HEARING AND FINDS THAT NO PREJUDICIAL ERROR WAS COMMITTED. THE RULINGS ARE HEREBY AFFIRMED. /3/ UPON CONSIDERATION OF THE JUDGE'S DECISION AND THE ENTIRE RECORD IN THIS CASE, THE AUTHORITY HEREBY ADOPTS THE JUDGE'S FINDINGS, CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS, AS MODIFIED HEREIN. THE GENERAL COUNSEL ALLEGES IN THE COMPLAINT THAT THE RESPONDENT VIOLATED SECTION 7116(A)(1) OF THE STATUTE WHEN ITS REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH BARGAINING UNIT EMPLOYEES WHICH, IT IS CONTENDED, CONSTITUTED "COERCIVE INTERROGATION." ADDITIONALLY, THE GENERAL COUNSEL ALLEGES THAT THE RESPONDENT VIOLATED SECTION 7116(A)(1), (5) AND (8) OF THE STATUTE WHEN IT FAILED TO AFFORD THE NATIONAL TREASURY EMPLOYEES UNION (NTEU) THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE REPRESENTED AT THE INTERVIEWS WHICH, IT IS CONTENDED, WERE FORMAL DISCUSSIONS WITHIN THE MEANING OF SECTION 7114(A)(2)(A) OF THE STATUTE. /4/ LASTLY, THE GENERAL COUNSEL ALLEGES THAT THE "COERCIVE INTERROGATION" INTERFERED WITH AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE PROCEEDING IN VIOLATION OF SECTION 7116(A)(8) OF THE STATUTE. IN AGREEMENT WITH THE JUDGE AND BASED ON THE ENTIRE RECORD, INCLUDING THE JUDGE'S CREDIBILITY FINDINGS, THE AUTHORITY FINDS THAT THE INTERVIEWS CONDUCTED BY THE RESPONDENT'S REPRESENTATIVE WERE NON-COERCIVE IN NATURE AND, HENCE, DID NOT OTHERWISE VIOLATE THE PROTECTED RIGHTS OF EMPLOYEES. MOREOVER, BASED ON THE ENTIRE RECORD, INCLUDING THE JUDGE'S CREDIBILITY FINDINGS, AND FOR THE REASONS EXPRESSED IN INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE AND BROOKHAVEN SERVICE CENTER, 9 FLRA NO. 132(1982), THE AUTHORITY FINDS THAT THE RESPONDENT DID NOT VIOLATE SECTION 7116(A)(1), (5) OR (8) OF THE STATUTE BY NOT AFFORDING NTEU THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE PRESENT AT THE INTERVIEWS BETWEEN THE RESPONDENT'S REPRESENTATIVE AND BARGAINING UNIT EMPLOYEES. IT FOLLOWS, PERFORCE, THAT THE RESPONDENT CANNOT BE FOUND TO HAVE INTERFERED WITH AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE PROCEEDING. THE COMPLAINT SHALL, THEREFORE, BE DISMISSED IN ITS ENTIRETY. /5/ ORDER IT IS HEREBY ORDERED THAT THE COMPLAINT BE, AND IT HEREBY IS, DISMISSED. ISSUED, WASHINGTON, D.C., AUGUST 16, 1982 RONALD W. HAUGHTON, CHAIRMAN HENRY B. FRAZIER III, MEMBER LEON B. APPLEWHAITE, MEMBER FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY -------------------- ALJ$ DECISION FOLLOWS -------------------- GARY B. LANDSMAN, ESQUIRE FOR THE RESPONDENT ALVARO GARZA, ESQUIRE FOR THE GENERAL COUNSEL B. CRAIG DEATS, ESQUIRE FOR THE CHARGING PARTY BEFORE: RANDOLPH D. MASON ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE DECISION THIS CASE AROSE PURSUANT TO THE FEDERAL SERVICE LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS STATUTE, 92 STAT. 1191, 5 U.S.C. 7101 ET SEQ., AS A RESULT OF AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINT FILED ON AUGUST 12, 1980, BY THE REGIONAL DIRECTOR, REGION VI, FEDERAL LABOR RELATIONS AUTHORITY, DALLAS, TEXAS, AGAINST THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS SERVICE, REGION V ("RESPONDENT"). THE COMPLAINT RAISES TWO PRINCIPAL ISSUES RELATING TO CERTAIN INTERVIEWS CONDUCTED BY AN ATTORNEY FOR RESPONDENT WITH UNIT EMPLOYEES WHO WERE PROSPECTIVE WITNESSES FOR AN UPCOMING UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING: (1) DID THE INTERVIEWS CONSTITUTE "COERCIVE INTERROGATION" IN VIOLATION OF SEC. 7116(A)(1) OF THE STATUTE, AND (2) WERE THE INTERVIEWS "FORMAL DISCUSSIONS" CONCERNING "GENERAL CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT" WITHIN THE MEANING OF SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) WHICH REQUIRED THAT THE UNION BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE REPRESENTED? SINCE THE UNION WAS NOT GIVEN THIS OPPORTUNITY, THE COMPLAINT ALLEGES VIOLATIONS OF SECTIONS 7116(A)(1), (5) AND (8) WITH RESPECT TO THE SECOND ISSUE. THE GENERAL COUNSEL SEPARATELY ALLEGES A VIOLATION OF SEC. 7116(A)(8) ON THE GROUND THAT THE ALLEGED COERCIVE INTERROGATION VIOLATED SEC. 7118 BY INTERFERING WITH AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE PROCEEDING. RESPONDENT DENIES ALL THESE ALLEGATIONS, ARGUING THAT THE INTERVIEWS WERE NOT COERCIVE IN NATURE AND THAT THEY DID NOT CONSTITUTE SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) DISCUSSIONS. THE OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT WAS PERMITTED TO FILE A BRIEF ON THE SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) ISSUE AS AN AMICUS CURIAE; OPM SIDED WITH THE RESPONDENT IN ALL MATERIAL RESPECTS. A HEARING WAS HELD IN THIS MATTER BEFORE THE UNDERSIGNED AT NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA ON OCTOBER 15, 1980. ALL PARTIES WERE REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL AND AFFORDED FULL OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD, ADDUCE RELEVANT EVIDENCE, AND EXAMINE AND CROSS-EXAMINE WITNESSES. THE PARTIES FILED BRIEFS WHICH HAVE BEEN DULY CONSIDERED. /6/ BASED ON THE ENTIRE RECORD HEREIN, INCLUDING MY OBSERVATION OF THE WITNESSES AND THEIR DEMEANOR, THE EXHIBITS, STIPULATIONS, /7/ AND OTHER RELEVANT EVIDENCE ADDUCED AT THE HEARING, I MAKE THE FOLLOWING FINDINGS OF FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW, AND RECOMMENDED ORDER: FINDINGS OF FACT AT ALL TIMES MATERIAL HEREIN, THE NATIONAL TREASURY EMPLOYEES UNION AND NTEU CHAPTER 168 ("THE UNION") HAS BEEN THE EXCLUSIVE REPRESENTATIVE OF AN APPROPRIATE UNIT OF EMPLOYEES OF THE RESPONDENT U.S. CUSTOMS SERVICE, REGION V. RESPONDENT AND THE UNION ARE PARTIES TO A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT COVERING ALL MATERIAL PERIODS. PRIOR TO THE CHARGES UNDERLYING THE INSTANT CASE, THE UNION FILED FOUR UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINTS IN 1978 UNDER EXECUTIVE ORDER 11491 AGAINST THE RESPONDENT AGENCY. THE 1978 COMPLAINTS ALLEGED THAT THE AGENCY HAD COMMITTED UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICES AT ITS AIR SUPPORT BRANCH (ASB) IN BELLE CHASSE, LOUISIANA. ON MAY 7, 1979, THE REGIONAL DIRECTOR, FLRA, REGION VI, ISSUED A NOTICE OF HEARING AND ORDER CONSOLIDATING CASES SETTING A HEARING TO COMMENCE ON JUNE 26, 1979, IN THE FOUR EXECUTIVE ORDER CASES. AT THE HEARING, RESPONDENT WAS REPRESENTED BY ELIZABETH BRIGMAN, ESQ., AN ASSOCIATE REGIONAL COUNSEL FOR THE AGENCY IN ITS NEW ORLEANS OFFICE. THE FINAL DECISION OF THE AUTHORITY WAS ISSUED ON SEPTEMBER 29, 1980. UNITED STATES CUSTOMS SERVICE, REGION V, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA, 4 FLRA NO. 42(1980). THE AUTHORITY FOUND, IN PART, THAT RESPONDENT HAD UNILATERALLY CHANGED THE ESTABLISHED PAST PRACTICE OF PILOTS REPORTING AIRCRAFT DISCREPANCIES TO MECHANICS, AND ORDERED RESPONDENT TO RETURN TO THE STATUS QUO ANTE ON THIS ISSUE. THE REMAINING ISSUES, ALSO INVOLVING ALLEGED UNILATERAL CHANGES IN WORKING CONDITIONS, WERE DECIDED IN RESPONDENT'S FAVOR. IN PREPARING RESPONDENT'S DEFENSE PRIOR TO THE HEARING IN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER CASES, ATTORNEY ELIZABETH BRIGMAN DECIDED TO INTERVIEW SOME OF THE UNIT EMPLOYEES AT THE AIR SUPPORT BRANCH FACILITY IN BELLE CHASSE, LOUISIANA. PRIOR TO DOING SO, HOWEVER, SHE DID SOME LEGAL RESEARCH AND CHECKED WITH HER NATIONAL OFFICE TO ASCERTAIN THE PROPER PROCEDURE FOR CONDUCTING SUCH INTERVIEWS. IT WAS DECIDED THAT AT EACH EMPLOYEE'S INTERVIEW SHE WOULD COMPLY WITH THE SAFEGUARDS SET FORTH IN THE CASE OF JOHNNIE'S POULTRY CO., 146 NLRB 770, 55 LRRM 1403, FOR THE PURPOSE OF ELIMINATING THE POSSIBILITY OF COERCIVE INTERROGATION. THAT CASE ALLOWS AN EMPLOYER TO QUESTION UNIT EMPLOYEES TO ASCERTAIN THE NECESSARY FACTS FOR A ULP HEARING IF THE EMPLOYER FIRST: (1) COMMUNICATES TO THE EMPLOYEE THE PURPOSE OF THE QUESTIONING, (2) ASSURES HIM THAT NO REPRISAL WILL TAKE PLACE, AND (3) OBTAINS HIS PARTICIPATION ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS; AND, IN ADDITION, (4) THE QUESTIONING MUST OCCUR IN A CONTEXT FREE FROM EMPLOYER HOSTILITY TO UNION ORGANIZATION AND MUST NOT BE ITSELF COERCIVE IN NATURE; AND (5) THE QUESTIONS MUST NOT EXCEED THE NECESSITIES OF THE LEGITIMATE PURPOSE BY PRYING INTO OTHER UNION MATTERS, ELICITING INFORMATION CONCERNING AN EMPLOYEE'S SUBJECTIVE STATE OF MIND, OR OTHERWISE INTERFERING WITH THE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF EMPLOYEES. PRIOR TO CONDUCTING ANY INTERVIEWS, ATTORNEY ELIZABETH BRIGMAN STUDIED THE ABOVE SAFEGUARDS AND COMMITTED THEM TO MEMORY. SHE ALSO TOOK A WRITTEN LIST OF THE SAFEGUARDS TO THE SUBSEQUENT INTERVIEWS. THEN ON JUNE 11 AND 12, 1979, BRIGMAN WENT TO THE AIR SUPPORT BRANCH IN BELLE CHASSE AND CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH THREE INDIVIDUAL UNIT EMPLOYEES. SHE DID NOT KNOW WHETHER THE UNION INTENDED TO CALL THESE EMPLOYEES AS WITNESSES. THE INTERVIEWS WERE CONDUCTED DURING WORKING HOURS IN A SUPERVISOR'S OFFICE. THE INTERVIEWS WERE NOT SCHEDULED IN ADVANCE AND NO EMPLOYEE WAS ORDERED TO SUBMIT TO THE INTERVIEW. AT EACH INTERVIEW ONLY BRIGMAN AND THE INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYEE WERE PRESENT. THE UNION WAS NOT NOTIFIED IN ADVANCE THAT THE THREE INTERVIEWS WERE GOING TO OCCUR, AND WAS NOT OTHERWISE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND. AT THE OUTSET OF EACH OF THE ABOVE INTERVIEWS, ELIZABETH BRIGMAN TOLD THE EMPLOYEE THAT SHE WAS CONDUCTING A FACTFINDING INVESTIGATION ON RESPONDENT'S BEHALF IN PREPARATION FOR THE UPCOMING UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING. SHE TOLD THEM THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO TALK TO HER IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO, AND, IF THEY CHOSE TO TALK, THEY COULD ALSO REFRAIN FROM ANSWERING ANY PARTICULAR QUESTIONS IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO ANSWER THEM. SHE MADE IT CLEAR TO THEM THAT IT WAS STRICTLY VOLUNTARY AND THAT THERE WOULD BE NO REPRISALS AGAINST THEM IF THEY CHOSE NOT TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. THESE STATEMENTS WERE MADE FROM MEMORY. AFTER SHE CONCLUDED GIVING THE ABOVE "JOHNNIE'S POULTRY ASSURANCES," EACH EMPLOYEE INDICATED THAT HE UNDERSTOOD WHAT HAD BEEN SAID. THE JUNE 11 INTERVIEW WAS CONDUCTED WITH PILOT MEEK KIKER. AT THE HEARING OF THE INSTANT CASE, THE LATTER TESTIFIED CREDIBLY THAT THE ABOVE ASSURANCES WERE GIVEN TO HIM AT HIS INTERVIEW WITH BRIGMAN. AFTER KIKER AGREED TO SUBMIT TO THE INTERVIEW, THE ATTORNEY CONFINED HER QUESTIONS TO THE FACTS OF THE UPCOMING UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING. THE INTERVIEW LASTED ABOUT 20-30 MINUTES. AT THE 1979 EXECUTIVE ORDER HEARING, KIKER TESTIFIED ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE UNION. ON JUNE 12 BRIGMAN INTERVIEWED PILOTS TERRY WHITE AND WALTER CHANDLER. WHILE SHE WAS GIVING WHITE THE "ASSURANCES," HE ASKED "DO YOU THINK I NEED MY UNION REPRESENTATIVE?" SHE TOLD HIM THAT SHE DID NOT THINK THAT HE NEEDED A REPRESENTATIVE, AND THAT THIS WAS NOT THE KIND OF INTERVIEW REQUIRING THE PRESENCE OF THE UNION. SHE FURTHER STATED THAT SHE PREVIOUSLY HAD CHECKED THIS QUESTION WITH HER SUPERVISOR AND HAD BEEN TOLD THAT THE UNION HAD NO RIGHT TO ATTEND SUCH A MEETING. WHITE SAID "OKAY" AND DIDN'T MENTION THE MATTER AGAIN. BRIGMAN THEN FINISHED GIVING WHITE THE "ASSURANCES." WHITE INDICATED THAT HE UNDERSTOOD AND VOLUNTARILY SUBMITTED TO THE INTERVIEW, WHICH WAS CONFINED THEREAFTER TO THE FACTS OF THE UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE CASES. WHITE'S INTERVIEW LASTED ABOUT 20 MINUTES. WHEN WHITE LEFT HIS INTERVIEW, HE TOLD CHANDLER THAT MS. BRIGMAN WISHED TO SPEAK WITH HIM. WHITE WAS APPARENTLY HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT WHETHER THE UNION HAD A RIGHT TO ATTEND THE MEETINGS, BECAUSE HE MENTIONED THE MATTER TO CHANDLER JUST BEFORE THE LATTER ENTERED HIS INTERVIEW. CONSEQUENTLY, WHEN BRIGMAN WAS GIVING CHANDLER THE "ASSURANCES," HE ASKED HER IF SHE WAS SURE THE UNION DID NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO ATTEND. SHE TOLD HIM THE SAME THING SHE TOLD WHITE, I.E., THAT IT WAS HER SUPERVISOR'S OPINION THAT THE UNION HAD NO SUCH RIGHT. SHE THEN FINISHED ASSURING CHANDLER THAT NO REPRISALS WOULD OCCUR REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE PARTICIPATED OR NOT AND OBTAINED HIS VOLUNTARY COOPERATION TO PARTICIPATE IN THE ENSUING 5 MINUTE INTERVIEW. AS IN THE PRECEDING INTERVIEWS, ALL QUESTIONS PERTAINED TO THE ESSENTIAL FACTS OF THE UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE ISSUES AND DID NOT EXCEED THE NECESSITIES OF THIS LEGITIMATE PURPOSE. IN ALL THREE OF THE ABOVE INTERVIEWS BRIGMAN MADE SURE THAT SHE "GOT EVERYTHING IN" THAT WAS REQUIRED BY THE NLRB IN THE JOHNNIE'S POULTRY CASE. SHE ALSO WAS CAREFUL TO CREATE A CORDIAL, NON-COERCIVE ATMOSPHERE. ALL THREE EMPLOYEES WERE VERY COOPERATIVE AND HELPFUL IN ANSWERING HER QUESTIONS, AND EXPLORED MANY FACT SITUATIONS IN DETAIL. BRIGMAN TOOK NOTES DURING THE INTERVIEWS. SUBSEQUENT TO THE ABOVE MEETINGS, THE UNION STEWARD OBJECTED TO THE CONTINUATION OF SUCH INTERVIEWS UNLESS THE UNION WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND. NO FURTHER INTERVIEWS WERE CONDUCTED. AT THE 1979 HEARING IN THE EXECUTIVE ORDER CASES, WHITE AND CHANDLER TESTIFIED FOR THE UNION. WHEN BRIGMAN CROSS-EXAMINED THEM, SHE BROUGHT OUT POINTS IN SUPPORT OF THE AGENCY'S CASE THAT SHE HAD LEARNED IN THE INTERVIEWS. KIKER WAS CALLED AS A WITNESS FOR THE AGENCY. CONCLUSIONS OF LAW THE COERCIVE INTERROGATION ISSUE THE FIRST ISSUE PRESENTED FOR CONSIDERATION IS WHETHER THE RESPONDENT AGENCY'S ATTORNEY CONDUCTED COERCIVE INTERROGATIONS OF BARGAINING UNIT EMPLOYEES IN PREPARATION FOR AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING. A COERCIVE INTERVIEW OF A BARGAINING UNIT EMPLOYEE BY AGENCY REPRESENTATIVES IN PREPARATION FOR AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING HAS LONG BEEN PROHIBITED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR BECAUSE IT INHIBITS THE EMPLOYEE IN THE EXERCISE OF HIS PROTECTED RIGHTS UNDER SEC. 7 OF THE LABOR MANAGEMENT RELATIONS ACT, 29 U.S.C. 157. JOY SILK MILLS, INC. V. N.L.R.B., 185 F.2D 732(D.C. CIR. 1950), 27 LRRM 2012. OVER THE YEARS, THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD AND THE COURTS HAVE ATTEMPTED TO DEVELOP A STANDARD OF EMPLOYER CONDUCT FOR PRE-HEARING INTERVIEWS OF PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEE WITNESSES WHICH STRIKES "A DELICATE BALANCE BETWEEN THE LEGITIMATE INTEREST OF THE EMPLOYER IN PREPARING ITS CASE FOR TRIAL, AND THE INTEREST OF THE EMPLOYEE IN BEING FREE FROM UNWARRANTED INTERROGATION." TEXAS INDUSTRIES, INC. V. N.L.R.B., 336 F.2D 128, 133 (5TH CIR. 1964), 57 LRRM 2046. THE INTERROGATION RULES FOLLOWED BY THE BOARD ARE SET FORTH IN THE WELL-KNOWN CASE OF JOHNNIE'S POULTRY, INC., 146 NLRB 770, 55 LRRM 1403(1964), ENFORCEMENT DENIED, /8/ 344 F2D 617(8TH CIR. 1965), 59 LRRM 2117. JOHNNIE'S POULTRY PROVIDES THAT THE FOLLOWING SAFEGUARDS MUST BE OBSERVED TO MINIMIZE THE COERCIVE IMPACT OF EMPLOYER INTERROGATION IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES: (T)HE EMPLOYER MUST COMMUNICATE TO THE EMPLOYEE THE PURPOSE OF THE QUESTIONING, ASSURE HIM THAT NO REPRISAL WILL TAKE PLACE, AND OBTAIN HIS PARTICIPATION ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS; THE QUESTIONING MUST OCCUR IN A CONTEXT FREE FROM EMPLOYER HOSTILITY TO UNION ORGANIZATION AND MUST NOT EXCEED THE NECESSITIES OF THE LEGITIMATE PURPOSE BY PRYING INTO OTHER UNION MATTERS, ELICITING INFORMATION CONCERNING AN EMPLOYEE'S SUBJECTIVE STATE OF MIND, OR OTHERWISE INTERFERING WITH THE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF EMPLOYEES. 146 NLRB AT 775. IT IS THE BOARD'S POSITION THAT FAILURE TO ADHERE STRICTLY TO THE RULES SET FORTH IN JOHNNIE'S POULTRY CONSTITUTES A PER SE VIOLATION OF SEC. 8(A)(1) OF THE LABOR MANAGEMENT RELATIONS ACT, 29 U.S.C. 158(A)(1). HOWEVER, THAT POSITION HAS NOT BEEN ADOPTED BY SEVERAL CIRCUIT COURTS OF APPEALS WHICH HAVE TENDED TO IGNORE TECHNICAL OMISSIONS AND LOOK TO THE "TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES" WHEN DECIDING WHETHER COERCION IS PRESENT. SEE DISCUSSION OF CASES IN A & R TRANSPORT, INC. V. N.L.R.B., 601 F2D 311(7TH CIR. 1979), 101 LRRM 2856. DUE TO THE PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE INSTANT CASE, HOWEVER, IT WILL NOT BE NECESSARY TO DECIDE WHETHER THE BOARD'S VIEW IS TOO RIGID A TEST FOR THE PUBLIC SECTOR. THIS IS SO BECAUSE I HAVE FOUND, BASED UPON THE CREDIBLE TESTIMONY OF THE AGENCY'S ATTORNEY, BETTY BRIGMAN, THAT SHE STRICTLY OBSERVED THE JOHNNIE'S POULTRY SAFEGUARDS (THE MOST RIGID TEST) AND CREATED A NON-COERCIVE ATMOSPHERE DURING EACH OF THE EMPLOYEE INTERVIEWS IN QUESTION. I WAS IMPRESSED WITH MS. BRIGMAN'S TESTIMONIAL DEMEANOR AND I AM CONVINCED THAT SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH. /9/ SHE EXPLAINED HOW SHE HAD RESEARCHED THE JOHNNIE'S POULTRY RULES, AND OBTAINED THE INSTRUCTION OF HER NATIONAL OFFICE TO FOLLOW THOSE RULES, PRIOR TO CONDUCTING ANY INTERVIEWS. SHE MADE NOTES AND MEMORIZED THE SAFEGUARDS. AT THE OUTSET OF EACH INTERVIEW SHE TOLD THE EMPLOYEE THE PURPOSE OF HER QUESTIONING, AND ASSURED HIM THAT NO REPRISAL WOULD TAKE PLACE, AND OBTAINED HIS PARTICIPATION ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS. /10/ THE QUESTIONS WHICH FOLLOWED PERTAINED STRICTLY TO THE ISSUES OF THE UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINT AND THE ATMOSPHERE WAS NON-COERCIVE. SHE DID NOT PRY INTO UNION MATTERS, ELICIT INFORMATION CONCERNING THE EMPLOYEES' SUBJECTIVE STATE OF MIND (MATTERS WITHOUT PROBATIVE VALUE), OR OTHERWISE INTERFERE WITH THEIR PROTECTED RIGHTS UNDER THE STATUTE. IN CONCLUSION, I HOLD THAT THE AGENCY ATTORNEY'S INTERVIEWS OF PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYEE WITNESSES IN PREPARATION FOR AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING WERE NOT COERCIVE AND DID NOT OTHERWISE VIOLATE THE PROTECTED RIGHTS OF THE EMPLOYEES. THEREFORE, I FIND NO VIOLATION OF SEC. 7116(A)(1) OF THE STATUTE. IN ADDITION, SINCE THE QUESTIONING WAS PROPER, IT DID NOT INTERFERE WITH THE UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE PROCEEDING AS CONTENDED BY THE GENERAL COUNSEL. /11/ THE "FORMAL DISCUSSION" ISSUE THE NEXT ISSUE FOR CONSIDERATION IS WHETHER THE ABOVE INTERVIEWS OF UNIT EMPLOYEES IN PREPARATION FOR AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING CONSTITUTED "FORMAL DISCUSSIONS" CONCERNING GENERAL CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) OF THE STATUTE. THAT SECTION PROVIDES THAT THE EXCLUSIVE REPRESENTATIVE SHALL BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE REPRESENTED AT SUCH FORMAL DISCUSSIONS. SINCE THE UNION WAS NOT GIVEN THAT OPPORTUNITY IN THIS CASE, THE GENERAL COUNSEL AND THE CHARGING PARTY CONTEND THAT RESPONDENT VIOLATED SECTIONS 7116(A)(1), (5), AND (8). SECTION 7114(A)(2)(A) PROVIDES AS FOLLOWS: (2) AN EXCLUSIVE REPRESENTATIVE OF AN APPROPRIATE UNIT IN AN AGENCY SHALL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE REPRESENTED AT-- (A) ANY FORMAL DISCUSSION BETWEEN ONE OR MORE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE AGENCY AND ONE OR MORE EMPLOYEES IN THE UNIT OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES CONCERNING ANY GRIEVANCE OR ANY PERSONNEL POLICY OR PRACTICES OR OTHER GENERAL CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT. THE LANGUAGE CONTAINED IN THIS STATUTE HAD ITS GENESIS IN THE THIRD SENTENCE OF SEC. 10(E) OF EXECUTIVE ORDER 11491. IT IS CLEAR THAT, UNDER THAT SENTENCE, TWO REQUIREMENTS HAD TO BE MET BEFORE THE UNION'S RIGHT TO BE REPRESENTED AT MEETINGS BETWEEN MANAGEMENT AND BARGAINING UNIT EMPLOYEES ATTACHED: (1) THE MEETING MUST HAVE BEEN A "FORMAL" ONE; AND (2) THE MEETING MUST HAVE CONCERNED "GRIEVANCES, PERSONNEL POLICIES AND PRACTICES, OR OTHER MATTERS AFFECTING GENERAL WORKING CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYEES IN THE UNIT." NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION (NASA), WASHINGTON, D.C., FLRC NO. 74A-95, 3 FLRC 618(1975). WHETHER A MEETING BETWEEN A BARGAINING UNIT EMPLOYEE AND AN AGENCY REPRESENTATIVE WAS A "FORMAL DISCUSSION" AS THAT TERM WAS USED IN SEC. 10(E) OF THE ORDER WAS BASICALLY A FACTUAL DETERMINATION MADE BY CONSIDERING MANY TYPES OF FACTORS SUCH AS "WHO CALLED THE MEETING AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE; WHETHER WRITTEN NOTICE WAS GIVEN; WHERE THE MEETING WAS HELD; WHO ATTENDED; WHETHER A RECORD OR NOTES OF THE MEETING WERE KEPT; AND WHAT WAS ACTUALLY DISCUSSED." DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, U.S. NAVY, NORFOLK NAVAL SHIPYARD, AND TIDEWATER VIRGINIA FEDERAL EMPLOYEES METAL TRADES COUNCIL, AFL-CIO, FLRC NO. 77A-141, 6 FLRC 1103(1978). THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT THAT THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED THE EMPLOYEE INTERVIEWS IN QUESTION TO HAVE BEEN "FORMAL" IN NATURE, THEREBY SATISFYING THE FIRST REQUIREMENT OF SEC. 10(E). IN INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE SOUTH CAROLINA DISTRICT, A/SLMR NO. 1172, 8 A/SLMR 1370(1978), HE HELD THAT THE INTERVIEW OF A UNIT EMPLOYEE WHO WAS A POTENTIAL WITNESS IN AN UPCOMING ARBITRATION HEARING CONSTITUTED A FORMAL DISCUSSION. SEE ALSO, UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, MCCLELLAN AIR FORCE BASE, CALIFORNIA, A/SLMR NO. 830, 7 A/SLMR 350(1977), FLRC NO. 77A-56 (1977). THUS, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE INTERVIEWS OF POTENTIAL WITNESSES FOR AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE HEARING AS IN THE INSTANT CASE WOULD BE CONSIDERED "FORMAL." HOWEVER, THE ABOVE-CITED CASES ARE NOT DISPOSITIVE OF THE INSTANT CASE SINCE SEC. 10(E) WAS HELD TO APPLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT THOSE INTERVIEWS WERE CONDUCTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE PROCESSING OF PENDING "GRIEVANCES." /12/ HERE, SINCE NO GRIEVANCE EXISTED, THE SECOND REQUIREMENT OF SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) AND ITS PREDECESSOR WILL NOT BE SATISFIED UNLESS THE DISCUSSIONS CONCERNED A "GENERAL CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT." /13/ "CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT" ARE DEFINED IN SEC. 7103(A)(14), IN PERTINENT PART, AS "MATTERS . . . AFFECTING WORKING CONDITIONS." "AFFECTING" IS DEFINED AS "PRODUCING AN EFFECT OR CHANGE IN" SOMETHING. RANDOM HOUSE COLLEGE DICTIONARY (1973 ED.). THUS THE QUESTION BECOMES: DOES A PRE-HEARING EMPLOYEE INTERVIEW, WHICH IS CONFINED TO ASCERTAINING THE FACTS IN PREPARATION OF THE AGENCY'S DEFENSE OF AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINT, CONCERN A MATTER PRODUCING A CHANGE IN GENERAL WORKING CONDITIONS? CERTAINLY THERE IS NO DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN THE ABOVE PROCESS OF GATHERING FACTS AND THE ULTIMATE DISPOSITION OF THE COMPLAINT. IT IS, OF COURSE, POSSIBLE THAT THE ULTIMATE DISPOSTION WILL RESULT IN PUTTING UNILATERALLY CHANGED WORKING CONDITIONS BACK ON THE BARGAINING TABLE AND A RETURN TO THE STATUS QUO ANTE. BUT THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE INFORMATION ACQUIRED AT MEETINGS LIKE THE ONES IN QUESTION AND THIS ULTIMATE RESULT IS TOO TENUOUS. /14/ SECTION 7114(A)(2)(A) NECESSARILY ENCOMPASSES ONLY THOSE MEETINGS IN WHICH THE UNION REPRESENTATIVE COULD BE EXPECTED TO PLAY A MEANINGFUL AND USEFUL ROLE REGARDING CHANGES IN WORKING CONDITIONS. THE FACT-FACTING SESSIONS IN ISSUE HEREIN DO NOT LEND THEMSELVES TO THIS TYPE OF ROLE. THEREFORE, I HOLD THAT THESE INTERVIEWS DID NOT CONSTITUTE "FORMAL DISCUSSION(S) . . . CONCERNING . . . GENERAL CONDITION(S) OF EMPLOYMENT" SINCE THEY LACKED THE REQUISITE NEXUS TO CHANGES IN WORKING CONDITIONS. HOWEVER, THERE ARE FAR MORE IMPORTANT REASONS WHY THE INTERPRETATION ADVANCED BY THE GENERAL COUNSEL AND THE CHARGING PARTY SHOULD NOT PREVAIL. THEIR VIEW WOULD DEAL A SERIOUS BLOW TO THE ADVERSARY SYSTEM OF JUSTICE IN THE FIELD OF PUBLIC SECTOR LABOR LAW. THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RELATIONSHIP ENVISAGED BY THE STATUTE REQUIRES THAT EACH PARTY HAVE THE ABILITY TO FUNCTION AS AN EQUAL PARTNER WITHIN THE RELATIONSHIP. UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, AIR FORCE LOGISTICS COMMAND, AEROSPACE GUIDANCE AND METROLOGY CENTER, NEWARK, OHIO, 4 FLRA NO. 70(1980). FURTHER, IT IS BASIC TO THE CONCEPT OF JUDICIAL FAIRNESS AND ADMINISTRATIVE DUE PROCESS THAT THE PARTIES TO A LAWSUIT BE AFFORDED EQUAL PROCEDURAL RIGHTS. THE GENERAL COUNSEL'S INTERPRETATION OF SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) WOULD PUT THE PARTIES ON AN UNEQUAL FOOTING BY ALLOWING ONE PARTY ALONE, THE UNION, A FORM OF DISCOVERY ENCOMPASSING NOT ONLY THE FACTS ELICITED BY THE AGENCY ATTORNEY, TO THE EXTENT THEY ARISE DURING THE INTERVIEW, BUT ALSO THE CONFIDENTIAL THEORIES AND STRATEGIES OF THE AGENCY'S CASE IN DEFENSE OF THE UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINT. THE QUESTIONS ASKED BY THE ATTORNEY WOULD INEVITABLY REVEAL THE FACTUAL TERRITORY ON WHICH THE AGENCY'S DEFENSES ARE BASED AND THEREBY GIVE THE UNION AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE AND VALUABLE INSIGHT INTO THE AGENCY'S CASE IN ADVANCE OF THE HEARING. THIS WOULD BE EQUIVALENT TO PROVIDING THE UNION WITH ITS OWN EXCLUSIVE PROCEDURAL RIGHT WHICH WOULD DIRECTLY CONFLICT WITH THE FAIR, BALANCED PRETRIAL AND TRAIL PROCEDURES PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORITY'S REGULATIONS. IN SHORT, THE GENERAL COUNSEL'S AND CHARGING PARTY'S POSITION AMOUNTS TO UNJUSTIFIED TAMPERING WITH THE ADVERSARY SYSTEM ITSELF, WHICH HAS PROVEN TO BE A WORKABLE MEANS OF SEEKING THE TRUTH. IN ADDITION, IT WOULD BE EQUALLY ABHORRENT TO THE ADVERSARY Y SYSTEM OF JURISPRUDENCE TO ALLOW ANY PARTY (IN THIS CASE, THE UNION) TO INVADE THE PRIVACY OF THE OPPOSING COUNSEL IN THE PREPARATION OF HIS CASE. THIS PRINCIPLE WAS ENUNCIATED BY THE SUPREME COURT IN HICKMAN V. TAYLOR, 329 U.S. 495 AT 510(1947): . . . HERE IS SIMPLY AN ATTEMPT, WITHOUT PURPORTED NECESSITY OR JUSTIFICATION, TO SECURE WRITTEN STATEMENTS, PRIVATE MEMORANDA AND PERSONAL RECOLLECTIONS PREPARED OR FORMED BY AN ADVERSE PARTY'S COUNSEL IN THE COURSE OF HIS LEGAL DUTIES. AS SUCH, IT FALLS OUTSIDE THE ARENA OF DISCOVERY AND CONTRAVENES THE PUBLIC POLICY UNDERLYING THE ORDERLY PROSECUTION AND DEFENSE OF LEGAL CLAIMS. NOT EVEN THE MOST LIBERAL OF DISCOVERY THEORIES CAN JUSTIFY UNWARRANTED INQUIRIES INTO THE FILES AND THE MENTAL IMPRESSIONS OF AN ATTORNEY. HISTORICALLY, A LAWYER IS AN OFFICER OF THE COURT AND IS BOUND TO WORK FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF JUSTICE WHILE FAITHFULLY PROTECTING THE RIGHTFUL INTERESTS OF HIS CLIENTS. IN PERFORMING HIS VARIOUS DUTIES, HOWEVER, IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT A LAWYER WORK WITH A CERTAIN DEGREE OF PRIVACY, FREE FROM UNNECESSARY INTRUSION BY OPPOSING PARTIES AND THEIR COUNSEL. PROPER PREPARATION OF A CLIENT'S CASE DEMANDS THAT HE ASSEMBLE INFORMATION, SIFT WHAT HE CONSIDERS TO BE THE RELEVANT FROM THE IRRELEVANT FACTS, PREPARE HIS LEGAL THEORIES AND PLAN HIS STRATEGY WITHOUT UNDUE AND NEEDLESS INTERFERENCE. THAT IS THE HISTORICAL AND THE NECESSARY WAY IN WHICH LAWYERS ACT WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF OUR SYSTEM OF JURISPRUDENCE TO PROMOTE JUSTICE AND TO PROTECT THEIR CLIENT'S INTERESTS. THIS WORK IS REFLECTED, OF COURSE, IN INTERVIEWS, STATEMENTS, MEMORANDA, CORRESPONDENCE, BRIEFS, MENTAL IMPRESSIONS, PERSONAL BELIEFS, AND COUNTLESS OTHER TANGIBLE AND INTANGIBLE WAY-- APTLY THOUGH ROUGHLY TERMED BY THE CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS IN THIS CASE (153 F.2D 212, 223) AS THE "WORK PRODUCT OF THE LAWYER." WERE SUCH MATERIALS OPEN TO OPPOSING COUNSEL ON MERE DEMAND, MUCH OF WHAT IS NOW PUT DOWN IN WRITING WOULD REMAIN UNWRITTEN. AN ATTORNEY'S THOUGHTS, HERETOFORE INVIOLATE, WOULD NOT BE HIS OWN. INEFFICIENCY, UNFAIRNESS AND SHARP PRACTICES WOULD INEVITABLY DEVELOP IN THE GIVING OF LEGAL ADVICE AND IN THE PREPARATION OF CASES FOR TRIAL. THE EFFECT ON THE LEGAL PROFESSION WOULD BE DEMORALIZING. AND THE INTERESTS OF THE CLIENTS AND THE CAUSE OF JUSTICE WOULD BE POORLY SERVED. THESE PRINCIPLES SHOULD NOT BE VIOLATED UNLESS EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES ARE SHOWN. GOOD CAUSE HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN. OBVIOUSLY, IF THE UNION WERE ALLOWED TO ATTEND INTERVIEWS SIMILAR TO THOSE IN QUESTION IT WOULD BE AIDED IN THE PREPARATION OF ITS OWN CASE BY GATHERING ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE. BUT THIS "NEED" IS MORE THAN OFFSET BY THE UNWARRANTED INTRUSION INTO THE SUBTLETIES OF THE AGENCY'S DEFENSE. ALSO, SINCE THE PURPOSE OF THE INTERVIEW INVOLVES A SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH, THIS PURPOSE MIGHT SOMETIMES BE THWARTED. ALTHOUGH THE UNION WOULD GENERALLY BE EXPECTED, IN THE INTEREST OF GOOD LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS, TO PLAY A CONSTRUCTIVE ROLE IN ELICITING FACTS FROM THE EMPLOYEE, IT IS UNFORTUNATELY FORESEEABLE THAT SOME UNION REPRESENTATIVES MIGHT INSTRUCT THE EMPLOYEE TO REFRAIN FROM ANSWERING CERTAIN LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS. ALSO, SOME EMPLOYEES MIGHT BE RELUCTANT TO REVEAL FACTS WHICH ARE CONTRARY TO THE UNION'S POSITION IN THE PRESENCE OF THE UNION REPRESENTATIVE. FINALLY, IT MIGHT BE ARGUED THAT THE UNION'S PRESENCE WOULD HELP TO INSURE AGAINST COERCIVE INTERROGATION. HOWEVER, THE EXPERIENCE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS SHOWN THAT THE UNION'S PRESENCE IS NOT NECESSARY FOR THIS PURPOSE WHERE OTHER APPROPRIATE SAFEGUARDS ARE FOLLOWED. SEE, E.G., JOHNNIE'S POULTRY, SUPRA. THUS NO OVERRIDING NEED HAS BEEN SHOWN TO WARRANT AN INVASION OF THE PRIVACY OF AN AGENCY ATTORNEY IN THE PREPARATION OF HIS OR HER CASE. FINALLY, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT SEC. 7114(A)(2) CONSTITUTES FAR MORE THAN A MERE CODIFICATION OF THE PRINCIPLES AND RIGHTS PROVIDED BY SEC. 10(E) OF THE EXECUTIVE ORDER. CONGRESS SPECIFICALLY CHANGED THE UNION'S REPRESENTATION RIGHTS IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS. IN THE PROCESS OF CONSTRUCTING THE LANGUAGE OF SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) IT DID NOT CHOOSE TO SPECIFICALLY EXPAND THE RIGHT TO BE REPRESENTED AT FORMAL DISCUSSIONS TO THOSE CONCERNING UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINTS. THE ONLY SIMILAR PROCEDURES MENTIONED ARE "GRIEVANCES," AND AREA IN WHICH THE EXCLUSIVE REPRESENTATIVE HAS A UNIQUE CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP. IF CONGRESS HAD INTENDED TO INCLUDE THE PRE-HEARING INTERVIEWS IN QUESTION WITHIN SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) IT COULD EASILY HAVE DONE SO. /15/ FOR ALL OF THE FOREGOING REASONS, I HOLD THAT THE MEETINGS IN ISSUE DO NOT FALL WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) OF THE STATUTE. SINCE NO VIOLATIONS OF SECTIONS 7116(A)(1), (5), AND (8) HAVE BEEN FOUND, I HEREBY RECOMMEND THAT THE AUTHORITY ADOPT THE FOLLOWING: ORDER IT IS HEREBY ORDERED THAT THE COMPLAINT IN CASE NO. 6-CA-237 BE, AND HEREBY IS, DISMISSED. RANDOLPH D. MASON ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE DATED: MARCH 20, 1981 WASHINGTON, D.C. --------------- FOOTNOTES$ --------------- /1/ THE OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT (OPM) WAS PERMITTED TO FILE A BRIEF AMICUS CURIAE WITH THE JUDGE IN SUPPORT OF THE RESPONDENT'S POSITION. /2/ ADDITIONALLY, PURSUANT TO SECTION 2429.26 OF THE AUTHORITY'S RULES AND REGULATIONS, THE CHARGING PARTY WAS GRANTED PERMISSION TO FILE A SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF AND THE RESPONDENT FILED A RESPONSE THERETO. /3/ THE CHARGING PARTY EXCEPTED TO CERTAIN CREDIBILITY FINDINGS MADE BY THE JUDGE. THE DEMEANOR OF WITNESSES IS A FACTOR OF CONSEQUENCE IN RESOLVING ISSUES OF CREDIBILITY, AND THE JUDGE HAS HAD THE ADVANTAGE OF OBSERVING THE WITNESSES WHILE THEY TESTIFIED. THE AUTHORITY WILL NOT OVERRULE A JUDGE'S RESOLUTION WITH RESPECT TO CREDIBILITY UNLESS A CLEAR PREPONDERANCE OF ALL THE RELEVANT EVIDENCE DEMONSTRATES SUCH RESOLUTION WAS INCORRECT. THE AUTHORITY HAS EXAMINED THE RECORD CAREFULLY AND FINDS NO BASIS FOR REVERSING THE JUDGE'S CREDIBILITY FINDINGS. /4/ SECTION 7114(A)(2)(A) PROVIDES THAT: (2) AN EXCLUSIVE REPRESENTATIVE OF AN APPROPRIATE UNIT IN AN AGENCY SHALL BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE REPRESENTED AT- (A) ANY FORMAL DISCUSSION BETWEEN ONE OR MORE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE AGENCY AND ONE OR MORE EMPLOYEES IN THE UNIT OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES CONCERNING ANY GRIEVANCE OR ANY PERSONNEL POLICY OR PRACTICES OR OTHER GENERAL CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT(.) /5/ IN SO CONCLUDING, THE AUTHORITY FINDS IT UNNECESSARY TO PASS UPON THE JUDGE'S STATEMENT TO THE EFFECT THAT AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINT DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A "GRIEVANCE" WITHIN THE MEANING OF SECTION 7103(A)(9) OF THE STATUTE, AS WELL AS HIS STATEMENT TO THE EFFECT THAT SECTION 7114(A)(2)(A) ENCOMPASSES FORMAL DISCUSSIONS CONCERNING GENERAL CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT ONLY WHEN A CHANGE IN WORKING CONDITIONS IS INVOLVED. /6/ THE CHARGING PARTY REQUESTED AN OPPORTUNITY TO FILE A REPLY TO OPM'S BRIEF ON OR BEFORE JANUARY 26, 1981. THE REQUEST WAS GRANTED BUT NO REPLY BRIEFS WERE FILED. /7/ STIPULATIONS RELATING TO PRIOR SETTLEMENT EFFORTS HAVE BEEN IGNORED. /8/ THE EIGHT CIRCUIT DID NOT QUESTION THE BOARD'S INTERROGATION RULES. /9/ HER TESTIMONY WAS FULLY CORROBORATED BY EMPLOYEE KIKER WITH RESPECT TO THE LATTER'S INTERVIEW. IN CONTRAST, EMPLOYEES WHITE AND CHANDLER TESTIFIED THAT NO "ASSURANCES" WERE GIVEN BY BRIGMAN DURING THEIR INTERVIEWS. WHITE EVEN STATED THAT SHE TOLD HIM HE HAD TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. I AM CONVINCED ON THE BASIS OF THE TESTIMONIAL DEMEANOR OF ALL THESE WITNESSES THAT BRIGMAN'S VERSION OF THE FACTS REPRESENTS THE TRUTH, THAT CHANDLER COULD NOT REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED AND THAT WHITE ENGAGED IN FABRICATION AT THE HEARING. /10/ WHITE AND CHANDLER HAD PREVIOUSLY ASKED HER OPINION ABOUT THE UNION'S RIGHT TO ATTEND SUCH AN INTERVIEW. SHE TOLD THEM BOTH THE UNION HAD NO SUCH RIGHT AND SUBSEQUENTLY OBTAINED THEIR COOPERATION ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS AFTER CLARIFYING THIS "PROCEDURAL" POINT. /11/ I NEED NOT DECIDE WHETHER A TRULY COERCIVE INTERVIEW WOULD VIOLATE SEC. 7118 AND SEC. 7116(A)(8). /12/ THE CHARGING PARTY'S ARGUMENT THAT AN UNFAIR LABOR PRACTICE COMPLAINT CONSTITUTES A "GRIEVANCE" AS DEFINED BY SEC. 7103(A)(9) FOR PURPOSES OF THE STATUTE IS SO TOTALLY DEVOID OF MERIT THAT NO FURTHER DISCUSSION IS NECESSARY. /13/ IT IS NOT SERIOUSLY ARGUED THAT THE MEETINGS CONCERNED PERSONNEL POLICIES OR PRACTICES. /14/ ALTHOUGH NOT DISPOSITIVE OF THIS ISSUE, THE RECORD DOES NOT REVEAL ANY CONNECTION BETWEEN THE INTERVIEWS IN QUESTION AND THE ULTIMATE REMEDY GRANTED BY THE AUTHORITY IN 4 FLRA NO. 42(1980). /15/ IT IS NOTED THAT THE GENERAL COUNSEL'S POSITION WOULD LEAD TO THE ANOMALOUS RESULT WHEREIN THE UNION COULD BE REPRESENTED AT SUCH INTERVIEWS ONLY WHERE "GENERAL" WORKING CONDITIONS WERE INVOLVED, AND WOULD HAVE NO SEC. 7114(A)(2)(A) RIGHTS IN CASES WITHOUT "GENERAL" IMPACT. IN CONTRAST, THE UNION HAS THIS RIGHT IN ALL "GRIEVANCE" CASES REGARDLESS OF THE ABSENCE OF IMPACT ON GENERAL WORKING CONDITIONS. U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY, INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE, PITTSBURGH DISTRICT, PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA, A/SLMR NO. 498, 5 A/SLMR 208(1975).